Talk:Suicide attack

Sicarii don't belong here

Looking at Josephus, practically the only source there is about the Sicarii, he doesn't mention any suicide attacks at all. (Quotes all from the translations available on Wikisource.)

Certain of those robbers went up to the city, as if they were going to worship God, while they had daggers under their garments, and by thus mingling themselves among the multitude they slew Jonathan and as this murder was never avenged, the robbers went up with the greatest security at the festivals after this time; and having weapons concealed in like manner as before, and mingling themselves among the multitude, they slew certain of their own enemies, and were subservient to other men for money; and slew others, not only in remote parts of the city, but in the temple itself also; for they had the boldness to murder men there, without thinking of the impiety of which they were guilty...

— The Antiquities of the Jews, Book XX, Chapter 8

And then it was that the sicarii, as they were called, who were robbers, grew numerous... for they mingled themselves among the multitude at their festivals, when they were come up in crowds from all parts to the city to worship God, as we said before, and easily slew those that they had a mind to slay. They also came frequently upon the villages belonging to their enemies, with their weapons, and plundered them, and set them on fire.

— The Antiquities of the Jews, Book XX, Chapter 9

When the country was purged of these, there sprang up another sort of robbers in Jerusalem, which were called Sicarii, who slew men in the day time, and in the midst of the city; this they did chiefly at the festivals, when they mingled themselves among the multitude, and concealed daggers under their garments, with which they stabbed those that were their enemies; and when any fell down dead, the murderers became a part of those that had indignation against them; by which means they appeared persons of such reputation, that they could by no means be discovered.

— The Wars of The Jews, Book II, Chapter 13

And when they had joined to themselves many of the Sicarii, who crowded in among the weaker people (that was the name for such robbers as had under their bosoms swords called Sicae), they grew bolder, and carried their undertaking further; insomuch that the king's soldiers were overpowered by their multitude and boldness; and so they gave way, and were driven out of the upper city by force.

— The Wars of The Jews, Book II, Chapter 17

Josephus does mention Sicarii present at the Siege of Masada, but that wasn't a suicide attack, that was just a plain ol' mass suicide. Heck, out of both the sources cited, one is a passing mention and other mainly covers the aforementioned Siege of Masada. At the very least, a rewrite is warranted. ZionniThePeruser (talk) 03:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Do you mean it might be a relevant story, but maybe not exactly the same thing?

https://www.apu.ac.jp/rcaps/uploads/fckeditor/News/Life_as_a_Weapon_Making_Sense_of_Sucide_Bombings_APU_15_January.pdf

Wild guess, I think Sicarii suicide bombers might be the Japanese version of the story of who invented suicide bombers. I stumbled upon those slides after seeing this thread yesterday. I don't know if it appears anywhere else, or just this one guy's talk, but there is a slide called "ancient origins" that shows a collection of spurious examples and the Kamikaze are most recent. I am very confused by Jesus on that list, he fits the topic "martyrdom", but the slide says suicide bombers. Cato the Younger is also just suicide. My wild speculation is that after 911, Japanese researchers maybe went looking for absolutely anything that wasn't them for 9/11 to look like? But this is just my speculation based on one slide in a talk I found while looking for something else. I.M.B. (talk) 17:49, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Where are the bombers?

Suicide attack § War of Attrition

I can't work out where the suicide attacks are happening?

If it's the school bus, I can't work out how that could be done as a "suicide bombing" because "mines" are usually concealed.

Also, the current version says Israel is responding to attacks on Israeli civilians twice? But it doesn't say where attacks on Israeli civilians happened. Were there two sets of attacks or is that just emphasis? Are those two statements and the school bus all the same thing?

War of Attrition: On 21 March 1968, in response to persistent Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) raids against Israeli civilian targets, Israel attacked the town of Karameh, Jordan, the site of a major PLO camp. The goal of the invasion was to destroy Karameh camp and capture Yasser Arafat in reprisal for the attacks by the PLO against Israeli civilians, which culminated in an Israeli school bus hitting a mine in the Negev. This engagement marked the first known deployment of suicide bombers by Palestinian forces.

(tag me in replies please) I.M.B. (talk) 15:58, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

To make it more confusing, War of Attrition says that war happened in the Sinai. I.M.B. (talk) 16:03, 8 January 2025 (UTC)